The vet says lots of dogs have died when owners feed raw and bones my dog died because the bones damaged his bowel after lots of surgery to attempt to repair the damage he still died. My question is why do people who favour this method of feeding not warn people of the dangers? Please speak to your vet before you feed BARF
Because they believe, rightly or wrongly that raw/barf type feeding is better for the dogs, in some rare cases like your this is not always the case, very sorry for you loss.
For those who don't now about it
http://www.ukbarfclub.co.uk/about-barf-f...
By posting the link above I am not supporting BARF just help for peeps who don't know, I have done my research and will never feed BARF
I agree,there should be warnings on all dog food, we have it on the things we eat but our best friends get the raw deal as if it doesn't matter, more should be done we spend as much on medical bills for them as we do ourselves
There are risks with everything. Going to and getting out of bed can kill you.
Dogs choke and die on commercial foods all the time. Nevermind the multiple other health problems commercial foods have caused.
People wanting to feed this type of diet need to their research. You don't feed raw meat, and plain bones. You feed MEATY bones.
Vets are very poor choices for nutrition information. The little nutrition education they get is taught by major pet food companies. No bias there huh?
In general vets see the dogs of people who didn't research the diet and didn't do it right. They don't see the hundreds of thousands of dogs that never have a problem and lead happy, very healthy lives on this diet.
The dog in my avatar is a dog leading a very happy life. Her life on kibble sucked. She was a walking skeleton, yet found to be healthy by 3 different vets, on numerous visits. I've done my research, my dogs are thriving, and have never been healthier. No commercial foods in this house anymore.
http://www.rawfed.com/myths/index.html
MamaB, you are aware that dogs share 99% of there genes with wolves? Also while we done a ton to modify their outward appearance, nothing has been changed in their digestive systems.
"Dog food" has only been around for about 70 years (wide spread use). Before that what do you think dogs ate? I'm sorry you can't change thousands of years of evolution in 70 years.
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Based on that thinking ALL COMMERCIAL FOODS SHOULD BE BANNED. More dogs choke and die on kibble than they do on raw. In fact I've never heard of a raw fed dog choking and dying. Kibble causes a multitude of disease, diseases of the mouth, cancer, allergies, the list goes on.
So because we want what's best for our dogs, that makes us a cult?
*Oh yes, we're trying to brain wash everyone. *eyeroll* While I believe that a raw diet is by far the best diet for dogs and cats, I do realize it isn't for everyone and have nice list of HIGH QUALITY kibbles to recommend. *
The problem here is that you aren't also acknowledging the inherent risks involved with commercial foods as well.
Rishi, BARF stand for Biologicaly Appropriate Raw Food. There are two types of raw feeding, prey model, and BARF. BARF feeders also feed veggies, prey model feeders don't. I feed prey model. There are some commercial raw diets on the market, but many choose to put the diet together themselves. Email me if you'd like more information.
As far as humans being sharing genetics with apes. Last I checked we share also 99% of our DNA with chimpanzees. Chimps are omnivores, so are we. Wolves are carnivores, and so are dogs. Dogs are so genetically similar to wolves that some would say the dog isn't even technically a species in itself but rather a sub-species of the wolf. Except possibly for the chihuahua, which some believe came from the fennec fox, another carnivore.
***********I'm starring this portion as you apparently did read that while it is my opinion that a raw diet is best, I realize it isn't for everyone. For anyone not wishing to feed a raw diet I am more than happy to educate people on the ins and outs of what makes a quality commercial food. ******************
The Raw Diet::
However, getting my clients to feed a raw, homemade diet to a horribly allergic This is why dog food manufacturers have to add such high amounts of synthetic
http://www.dogtorj.net/id7.htmlHOME |
Raw Feeding FAQ::
People have different ideas about the raw diet and my suggestion if you become Well then, why do so many people still feed their dogs commercial dog foods?
http://www.alternativehealingtools.com/pets/RawFeedingFAQ.htmHOME |
No one is forcing anyone to feed anything. And I too am very offended at being called a cult because I researched, made my decisions, and happy to share my knowledge with others.
You would also be defended if we started calling raw haters/kibble pushers a cult, now wouldn't you?
No one, (at least not me) is saying that raw is the ONLY way to feed. There are people that home cook for there dogs, there are those that feed high quality kibble. I used to feed high quality kibble too. But that's not what worked for us. Raw has been what works for us, and for Bindi, it is the ONLY think that has worked for her.
No I don't feed commercial foods anymore, and I probably won't. But if a high quality kibble is what works for someone, good for them. If someone is feeding a low quality kibble, you bet I'm going to point out the flaws in that kibble, and recommend something of higher quality. If people want to home cook for their dogs, great, I'll refer them to groups of people who do home cook for their dogs. I'll admit my knowledge of home cooking isn't what it should be. I knew that wouldn't work for us, so I've focused on kibbles and raw.
But you did come off as pretty offensive, so I went on the defensive. I'm sorry this didn't work out for you, but for many, many more it has been the best thing for them.
Before I answered your question I answered one where someone talked about feeding chicken wings to their large dogs. I did warn them that dogs that size should not be fed foods that small.
As for that 1%, from what I've seen it affects behavior and appearance more than anything else.
I am sorry for your loss, I suck for words at times like that so all I can say is *hugs*.
Like I said my knowledge on home cooked is pretty limited at the moment. But the people here http://www.dogster.com/forums/Home_Prepa... would be glad to help you. This is a home cooking forum on Dogster. Dogster has 3 seperate feeding forums. Food and Nutrition which generally covers commercial foods, Raw Food Diet, which covers raw diets, and the Home Prepared Foods and Recipes forum which covers home cooking.
Also Dr. Pitcairn's Complete Guide to Natural Health for Dogs and Cats has some recipes, and The Ultimate Pet Food Guide by Liz Palika has some too.
I think there are those who feed raw who are a little over the top. But, not all are that way. I looked into a raw diet when having some issues with one of my dogs. I joined a chat list and just watched what was going on. I did see lots of posts about dogs who were having intestinal issues. A lot of these people were not really following the BARF diet- just tossing out some raw meat and bones. The BARF diet is much more than that.
SIBERIAN HUSKY*Arctic Northern Siberian Huskies\Husky Sled Dogs ::
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I did end up feeding one of my dogs pre-packaged raw because of some diet issues- and she really did pretty well on it. She developed a much thicker, darker coat than she had previously. Unfortunately, she was getting reflux on it because of the high protein content.
When people ask me about raw, I do caution them. I think that, if done appropriately, it can be a really good diet. Some dogs do excel on it. But, just as with any diet, it's not the perfect diet for all dogs. It takes a lot of time and commitment.
I have talked to a couple of vets, and maybe it's just my area, but they did not have many clients who were feeding raw. They also didn't see many complications from it. The ones they are seeing is not from the pre-packaged, but from folks feeding grocery store meat- dogs getting salmonella and e.coli from grocery store meat.
My major problem with a raw diet, is that people feed the same meat the get at the grocery store. Let's remember that this meat is meant to be COOKED before it's eaten--- because of that, the standards set by USDA are set with that in mind. If you want to feed raw, I think it's important that you consider this, and try to find a food source that is much fresher- a local butcher or farmer.
Because some people believe, and rightly so, that a dog's natural diet is raw meat,bones & organs. Sometimes it seems this can go wrong. Have a friend w/a 5 yr old American Bull Dog, who has never had anything but raw chicken all his life He is a magnificent specimen of the breed. He gets half a raw chicken every other day. And water.
I am so sorry for your loss.
I haven't yet heard of the BARF diet.
What is it?
And again, I am very sorry for your loss.
It that is the diet that has killed your dog, there should be a stop put to it, and it should have a list of dangers.
Unless you cooked the bones you feed then they didn't kill your dog. The BARF (or any raw diet) if done correctly is a very normal, healthy, natural way to feed a dog. It is the diet dogs were designed and meant to eat.
How much bone were you feeding? With a raw diet, the usual recommendation is 80% meat, 10% bone, and 10% organ.
I do feed my dog raw, but I do not bash others that don't. If they have their minds made up on raw, I try to point them in the right direction to find a high quality dry food.
I am so sorry for your loss.
I'm so sorry for your loss. It's so sad that your dog met such an unfortunate fate. As a supporter of a raw prey model diet, I'm offended that you refer to those who choose a specific diet as a cult. Anyone who considers a change in their dog's diet needs to do their own research and consult with their vet on each individual dog's nutritional needs. There is no such thing as a "one size fits all" diet. However, with adequate research and experience, a raw diet is among one of the safest things one can feed a dog. I'm not going to question the conditions of your dog's death because that would be in poor taste. Please take all factors into consideration though, before blaming the diet itself.
Add:
I do not force my views on others. However, YOU did make the decision to feed a raw diet. If you made that choice, obviously you saw a point to it. Brainwashing is an excessively harsh term. We all have the ability to use our own judgment and you used yours. It is MY belief that a raw diet is as close to the most nutritionally sound food a dog can eat. Why? Because I'm certain that wolves aren't eating kibble and home cooked meals in the wild. There are other high quality diets out there. However, no kibble is ever going to get close to paralleling the nutrition of raw meat, bones and organs.
My vet is also a nutritionist and does not sell any kibble or dog food at her clinic.
She has gotten the whole town on raw feeding and never has she had a problem with anyone coming back because of raw bone obstructions.
In fact she has said the number of problems with bones getting blocked has gone DOWN, because people are now more aware of cooked bones and no longer feeding them. And opting for raw bones instead.
What I see alot of Barfers do is feed larger dogs chicken wings/necks etc ALOT and not larger pieces like whole chickens and other whole carcasses.
You are right though, there are alot of people who dont feed the BARF diet right. I dont feed BARF but I feed a more whole carcass style of diet with some vegies.
You need larger, chewier, meatier pieces ESPECIALLY if your dog has digestive upsets or has started the diet later in life, swallowing whole chicken necks is'nt good. I started my dog on smaller pieces when he was 8 weeks old then gave him larger pieces as he got older.
I like whole caracasses. I have always fed my dog raw and he is two and a half years old, Ive never had a problem and neither has anyone else I know.
My dog choking or having obstructions is the last thing I worry about.
there's a risk in everything, just whether the advantages outweigh the disadvantages only.
kibbles kill dogs too but why are people feeding them to their pets? dogs choke on kibbles, kibbles with water causes bloat, kibbles might lead to dehydration, kibbles may be sprayed with fat, kibbles may contain fillers, kibbles may contain antibiotics and hormones from the meat, kibbles have absolutely no live enzymes that a dog requires. kibbles cause the deaths, ailments, cancers etc in dogs and cats at a very much more regular basis than barf diet.
barf diet requires plenty of knowledge to feed, it has its risks of course, but i feel the advantages outweigh the risks by a massive percentage.
most vets will advise against feeding barf diet for fear of bacteria and choking on bones etc, saying that lots of dogs have died when fed raw but they won't tell you that kibbles and commercial food have caused the deaths of far far more dogs.
vets are trained in the area of nutrition by representatives from petfood companies who obviously put their kibbles in good light, promoting it and everything. vets recommend Science Diet, but any knowledgeable pet owner will be able to point out all the rubbish in that food. then why is it still recommended?
i trust only holistic vets. still, vets are still humans, with greed for money and profit. do you know they get commision for every bag of Science Diet they sell? promoting kibbles that causes health problems helps to make sure that they earn enough to feed themselves and lead a comfortable live. so sometimes, a vet isn't the best person to consult.
look for honest vets who has your pet's welfare in mind first, not those who are more intuned to profit.
i can totally assure you that kibbles and commercial food are the main causes of shorter canine and feline lifespans.
There are always good and bad reports in anything. Personally I won't use this food for my hounds because I believe there are very few people who can get the correct balance in this diet. I also have very serious reservations, aired before, about feeding raw chicken, not only the bones (which is reason enough for me not to feed that), but because raw chicken carries salmonella, amongst other bugs.
The cynic in me does query the motivation of vets, because they promote Hills, Science Diet etc., but they are on the receiving end of things, when they go wrong, and I would listen to their findings.
Contrary to popular recent views, the domesticated dog isn't the same as the wild dog so the theory that the BARF diet is more correct, doesn't hold water for me.
But everybody is entitled to their views, to do their research, and make up their own minds what diet they choose to use. Like I say, there's good and bad in all things. It's a good quality complete diet for me and mine however.
PS I should have said I'm very sorry for your loss.
Interesting.
1) Joined today
2) Argumentative question
3) No email
4) Blocked questions/answers
5) Common nickname- therefore difficult to google search to look at other questions/answers.
If this happened to you I am sorry.
Why I continue to feed a raw (not barf) diet:
1) health issues - in a breed prone to cancers I feel a raw diet is better. The Europeans who have the breed raw feed and their dogs show greater longevity.. I believe there is a link.
2) health issues - in my other breed I've had a dog die of intestinal cancer ... a form of cancer that a veterinary oncologist told me is rising with the increased use of low residue kibbles.
3) health- my dogs do not have the common problems of their breeds- no ear issues, skin issues, anal gland issues and no cleaning of teeth ever needed. I owned/bred a dog who won the largest regional Specialty Show for the breed in the nation at the age of 11++ years of age over 100 younger dogs.
4) Expense- I can feed my large breed dogs a higher quality diet much less expensively than a premium kibble
5) Clean up- none.
Why not warn of risks?:
1) There are as many, if not more, risks associated with eating kibble
2) This forum is not conducive to long drawn out answers.... most people here who feed raw ask questioners to do more research. I usually encourage people to email me directly and to join Yahoo! raw feeding groups
If you're going to opt for a cooked diet with no bones please be certain you are fully educated in balancing that diet
wow... i am sorry for you loss. I also appreciate the heads up/ education through sharing your pain.
I feed a mostly raw diet. I also feed a commercial raw put out by Nature's Variety... so their are commercial options for the raw feeder and they are not banned.
I also feed a cooked diet and kibble (Merrick's BG or California Natural) to make sure they get variety.
I did speak with our vet and a canine nutritionist before choosing to incorporate a raw diet into my dog's menu. This is a very calculated and researched idea. Not something i took lightly nor something i would recomend to anyone who is not going to take the time. I even knew the risk of feeding raw fowl bones, and thus do not do it.
We make sure they get it all, and we grind most of our bones. I let them have the longer lamb bones but seldom the whole fowl, as yes, the hollow bones have been known to damage throats, stomache linings, and bowels.
I also believe some breeds have been bred out of the ability to handle raw food.... just like we humans have evolved to cook and overprocess most of our food. I also believe we are missing a lot of live enzymes and nutrients because of it leaving our bodies more open for disease and cancer and even mental issues. I think we are doing our animals the same diservice... but we continue.
But I must say one thing we agree on is this: NO COOKED BONES!!!!
Again sorry for your loss.
My vet can't stand giving a dog raw food. I asked him about chicken gizzards and rice once to feed my dog that doesn't like to eat. He said it would be great, as long as the meat was cooked.
i have a question what is barf and can you find it in australia
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The Barf diet killed my dog so why do people still feed like this ?