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Takata said Usui was a Christian monk, the Japanese claim that he was a member This process is shorter than the one currently used by the Japanese group.
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Hi everybody!
I have been reading an interesting thread over at the Budhist Forum on titles for monk, etc.
http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index.php?showtopic=35137&hl=
I have heard the term Obousan, but I had never heard the term Oterasan. Are both terms common?
In English we use the terms Minister and Monk to distinguish Christian clergy who live in society vs. someone who isolates themself from society. (However, when referring to Buddhist clergy it is common to call everyone a Monk, it seems....) My question is, in Japanese, is there any vocabulary to distinguish a "Monk" (outside of society) from a Minister (inside society)?
Epigene-san!
I must admit, I am a little surprised by the difficulty of this particular question -- there seems to be a plethora of Japanese religious-cleric terms. And no distintiction between priest and monk! Also, the idea in that thread that some monks take different names for different situations (even a travelling name???) is just amazing.
As the post on the other Forum says, Otera-san seems to be used only in Western Japan (not Tokyo).
Some Buddhist traditions also seem to have changed titles after WWII.
I have not actually gone ahead and read through all of the title vocabulary words, because there are just too many. However, I wonder if different Buddhist traditions use different titles. If so, this will make it just that much more complicated.
Buntaro-san
This really is a great conversation, and shows the diversity of vocabulary in Japanese. I don't wonder if you have put the cart before the carrot here. Do you know if in Buddhism they actually distinguish between a 'monk' and 'clergy'? It may simply be that the distinction does not exist in Japanese Buddhism, and ergo they need no words to separate the two.
See the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sapir-Whorf_Hypothesis) to get and idea of what I'm talking about.
I have heard the term Obousan, but I had never heard the term Oterasan. Are both terms common?
Hi, Buntaro-san,
I'll just post what I know as layperson. Commonly, "obousan" is used to refer to a Buddist monk as a third party. I have heard an "obousan" who heads a Buddhist temple addressed as "juushoku." As for "oterasan," I've heard it used to refer to a local temple, in the same way that Christian parishioners refer to their local church. I've never heard it used to refer to a monk as a person--maybe it is used that way in some localities. Maybe Kyoto? [I need someone from Kansai to comment on this. :bluush: EDIT HERE AGAIN--A poster in Chiebukuro claims that monks are called "oterasan" in her hometown, which was unspecified. ]
8th century: Information from Answers.com::
IV king of Austrasia, reserving for himself the title mayor of the palace. The Japanese Buddhist priest Dokyu eliminates the minister Oshikatsu, who has
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In English we use the terms Minister and Monk to distinguish Christian clergy who live in society vs. someone who isolates themself from society. (However, when referring to Buddhist clergy it is common to call everyone a Monk, it seems....) My question is, in Japanese, is there any vocabulary to distinguish a "Monk" (outside of society) from a Minister (inside society)?
I don't know any exact term in Japanese to distinguish between a monk ministering the local followers and monk isolated from society. But, a monk who is undergoing training is called 修行僧 (shugyou-sou) and is probably the term used to refer to ascetics... :relief:
BTW, I got an error on the link you posted--maybe you need to be a member to read? :p
Dictionary of the History of Ideas::
Japanese equivalents of priests, monks, or minis The English term bonze is a corruption of the. Japanese word bﾅ鉱u, which means the head of a
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for Roman Siler and Gold, that were used by the Kushana emperors and as a result title of Khan from the Mongols, their Sardari system in Balochistan,
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Edit: I have found something in Yahoo!Japan's Chiebukuro section that there are different names for monks according to sect and rank, so it can get a bit complicated. Some examples that were posted there:
真言宗：和尚（わじょう）
天台宗：和尚（かしょう）
浄土宗：和尚（おしょう）
臨済宗：和尚（おしょう）
曹洞宗：方丈さん（方丈ーほうじょう）
日蓮宗：上人（しょうにん）
住職 (juushoku) is regarded the safest way of addressing a head monk at a temple, regardless of sect, according to this poster.
Chiebukuro (http://detail.chiebukuro.yahoo.co.jp/qa/question_detail.php?qid=1310508803)
Sorry for editing my post so often!! :relief:
DC,
The Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis is correct in that it says vocabulary is specific to the concepts of the speakers of that language. That is exactly what we have here, regarding priest/monk terms in English and Japanese.
Perhaps I can add another idea to the discussion. To me, a priest is someone who leads a church service for a congregation. A monk, however, does his practices irregardless of a congregation. In pre-war Japanese Buddhism, I think there was less of an idea of "Sunday church/temple services" -- a concept brought in by the occupation and adopted into the Japanese culture. I am struck by how strongly the idea of Sunday church services in Honganji (a Japanese denomination now established in America and other countries) has caught on. Perhaps in old Japan, the concept of pastorial services did not even exist. (Does anyone have knowledge of this?)
Hi, Buntaro-san,
I'll just post what I know as layperson. Commonly, "obousan" is used to refer to a Buddist monk as a third party.This is my (limited) experience as well...
「お坊さん」 obou-san... buddhist monk (sometimes translated as buddhist priest, but, whatever...)
I found a list showing how Buddhism priests are called.
It might be interesting for you.
http://www.tctv.ne.jp/members/tobifudo/newmon/name/osyo.html
It's a part of やさしい仏教入門
http://www.tctv.ne.jp/members/tobifudo/newmon/index.html
Epigene-san!
I am sorry to hear the link did not work for you. Try this:
http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism > Japanese Forum (towards the bottom, in the Academy Section) > Japanese Title for Ordained Monastics, Other than Roshi or Sensei
Undrentide-san!
Thanks for the links. I'll see if I get some time to look at those links later.
---
I must admit, I am a little surprised by the difficulty of this particular question -- there seems to be a plethora of Japanese religious-cleric terms. And no distintiction between priest and monk! Also, the idea in that thread that some monks take different names for different situations (even a travelling name???) is just amazing.
As the post on the other Forum says, Otera-san seems to be used only in Western Japan (not Tokyo).
Some Buddhist traditions also seem to have changed titles after WWII.
I have not actually gone ahead and read through all of the title vocabulary words, because there are just too many. However, I wonder if different Buddhist traditions use different titles. If so, this will make it just that much more complicated.
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Japanese term / title used for monk, minister, or nun?